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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:18 am
by sebbbl

Bottom post of the previous page:

PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago Another thing that you will see in the aerial shots is this. I think some people believe this is the old Sudkurve, but actually it seems that this was part of a circuit extension that was due to be either constructed from, or used from 1939 onwards but was never completed:

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Maybe @sebbbl knows more about this.
These are the remains of the planned and never finished southern loop. It was built in 1939/40 and later used as a shooting range for US military.
It was supposed to be much bigger that the Nordkurve.

1946 seen from the Autobahn.
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A concrete model that was used as a visualisation before contruction began
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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:19 am
by PTRACER
sebbbl wrote: 1 year ago
PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago How about a 22,000 pixel wide aerial photo of AVUS in 1928? (@sebbbl )

https://the-fastlane.co.uk/images/aerial/avus1928.jpg
Thank you very much! Very interesting - especially the Südkehre halfway down the straights that was used between 1951 and 1988. Very strange as it was only built in 1950/51 I thought :dunno:

I think that is a mix of various pictures from different times. A simple U-turn was first used in that area in 1938, but not that bend...
According to this site, they are all from the same aerial survey conducted in 1928. There are aerial shots from 1953 on the site as well, the whole environment is totally different. It doesn't seem possible that some photos could be from a different year or decade.

https://fbinter.stadt-berlin.de/fb/index.jsp

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:24 am
by PTRACER
sebbbl wrote: 1 year ago
PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago Another thing that you will see in the aerial shots is this. I think some people believe this is the old Sudkurve, but actually it seems that this was part of a circuit extension that was due to be either constructed from, or used from 1939 onwards but was never completed:

Image

Maybe @sebbbl knows more about this.
These are the remains of the planned and never finished southern loop. It was built in 1939/40 and later used as a shooting range for US military.
It was supposed to be much bigger that the Nordkurve.

1946 seen from the Autobahn.
Image
That's awesome! And I have seen the other pictures before, finally I understand what it is. I thought it was the remains of the actual Sudkurve.

I never heard anything about this banking that was never used until yesterday.

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:58 pm
by sebbbl
PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago
sebbbl wrote: 1 year ago
PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago How about a 22,000 pixel wide aerial photo of AVUS in 1928? (@sebbbl )

https://the-fastlane.co.uk/images/aerial/avus1928.jpg
Thank you very much! Very interesting - especially the Südkehre halfway down the straights that was used between 1951 and 1988. Very strange as it was only built in 1950/51 I thought :dunno:

I think that is a mix of various pictures from different times. A simple U-turn was first used in that area in 1938, but not that bend...
According to this site, they are all from the same aerial survey conducted in 1928. There are aerial shots from 1953 on the site as well, the whole environment is totally different. It doesn't seem possible that some photos could be from a different year or decade.

https://fbinter.stadt-berlin.de/fb/index.jsp
You are right. I will take a closer look on that.

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 06:55 am
by kubakozal
PTRACER wrote: 1 year ago How about a 22,000 pixel wide aerial photo of AVUS in 1928? (@sebbbl )

https://the-fastlane.co.uk/images/aerial/avus1928.jpg
What surprised me is the size of the Nordkurve - I always thought, that current loop was build exactly in the place of old banking, but it is much tighter and smaller.

EDIT: Ok, I've googled: Nordkurve was changed more than once. First it was this big loop, then they built the legendary brick banking that was tighter and smaller - more like todays loop. And then they dismantled the banking and left this flat curve....

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:14 pm
by sebbbl
Here is a picture/montage to promote the new banking prior to the 1937 AVUS-Rennen

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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 20:32 pm
by kubakozal
I belive no one has posted this before:
Montreal in late 70s:
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and in late 80s/early 90s:
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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 07:51 am
by Michael Ferner
The first picture is actually 1978, the only year they used the tight version of the first chicane.

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 23:58 pm
by Michkov
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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 13:02 pm
by Michkov
Aintree
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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:40 pm
by hollie3sa
Michkov wrote: 1 year ago Image
Pukekohe, no?
Characteristic main 'straight' and hairpin.

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 17:17 pm
by Everso Biggyballies
hollie3sa wrote: 1 year ago
Michkov wrote: 1 year ago Image
Pukekohe, no?
Characteristic main 'straight' and hairpin.
Indeed Pukekohe.....
On 29 August 1962 Pukekohe Borough Council held a special meeting on the proposed use of the racecourse for motor racing. A sealed racetrack was then built outside the horse-racing track, and the inaugural New Zealand Grand Prix was run on 5 January 1963. John Surtees of Great Britain won that race, driving a Lola.
The image is an aerial view of the first Grand Prix meeting in 1963.

Source: From records of the former Pukekohe Borough Council, held at Archives New Zealand Auckland Regional Office [Archives reference: YBAW A489/98b].

You can click and get a much larger image and more info on the Archives NZ Flickr account here: (direct link to the Pukekohe entry) https://www.flickr.com/photos/archivesnz/27847541093

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 18:56 pm
by Michael Ferner
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago(...) and the inaugural New Zealand Grand Prix was run on 5 January 1963. (...)


Cough, cough!

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Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 05:02 am
by Everso Biggyballies
Michael Ferner wrote: 1 year ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago(...) and the inaugural New Zealand Grand Prix was run on 5 January 1963. (...)
Cough, cough!
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You are quite right.... and of course the NZGP was run prior to 1954 as well, although 1954 was when it became more of a feature / International race with the likes of Brabham Wharton Whitehead etc, and other overseas types, the event moving from Okahea to Ardmore.

1950 NZGP Okahea Programme cover.
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I should have picked the error / misinformation myself, especially as a couple of days ago I was reading about the 1956 race with Moss bringing his Maserati over for the race. and along with a couple of Ferraris they got sent to Wellington instead of Auckland and a subsequent train transport from Wellington to Auckland delayed their arrival. I also read of the updates on Moss's car.... fancy alloy wheels and Dunlop discs instead of Mazza drums. Moss of course won from other Internationals by a large margin despite having to make a late stop for a minor fix. The Maserati stayed in NZ after Moss returned to Blighty, bought by a wealthy local.

But all in all I should have picked it. :blush: Your eagle eyes saved the day. :haha:

All I can say is I copied the info straight from the NZ archives page I linked...."From records of the former Pukekohe Borough Council, held at Archives New Zealand Auckland Regional Office".

Being it is a Pukekohe Council record perhaps they are floating their boat a bit and made a bit more of it being the inaugural NZGP at the Pukekohe circuit. :idunno:

Maybe they were thinking of it being the first NZ GP on a proper permanent road circuit..... given both Ardmore and Okahea were both more temporary Airfield racetracks ,indeed Airfields still used for planes. :idunno: In fact they are both still busy airfields for light aircraft use flight training to this day. Okahea is still used by the RNZAF and as an emergency diversion from Auckland Airport.

Im looking for a reason for their claim rather than an excuse for my oversight.

Having said that Ardmore is not a million miles from Pukekohe (20-30 klms), and closer to Auckland so after near enough 10 NZ GPs at Ardmore you would think they realised Pukekohe wasnt the first NZ GP. by a long shot. :wink:

Pukekohe did have the pleasure of hosing 2 NZGPs in 1984 (I think January and then mid December) although most sources dont reflect this referring to a 1985 race which never actually existed.

Anyway bottom line in relation to this thread is that the image is Pukekohe and was said to be taken in 1963 . :wink:

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 09:26 am
by Michael Ferner
Don't be so defensive... :haha: I'm just fulfilling my watchdog obligations :idunno:

(somebody has to do the dirty work... :wink: )

Re: Old aerial shots of circuits (incl. Silverstone, Brands...)

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 00:40 am
by PTRACER
Aerial pics of the old Donington circuit are extremely rare. These are the first I have seen, courtesy of Motorsport Images.

At first I was confused how there could be a left hander leading down to the Melbourne Hairpin, but then I realised that this is actually Starkey's Corner and the Melbourne Hairpin did not exist for another year or so after these images were taken.

In the third photo you can see the exit of Coppice. That's the first time I have ever seen this part of the old track from above or otherwise. There is another hairpin here, which was part of a short layout known as the Manufacturer's circuit. I didn't know about this before.

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