Horner under investigation

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Aty
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#91

Post by Aty »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Potential replacement:

Dr. Marko is on the record that he is not interested in that position, and why would he? He is about 80y. old and he would be lacking energy. So far 5 names floating on the internet.

1. Marko
2. Berger
3. Waché
4. Wheatley
5. Someone close to Mark M.

Both Waché and Berger would be a good fit. Waché is probably the best (= smart, respected, experienced).
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#92

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US Ford:
"As a family company, and a company that holds itself to very high standards of behaviour and integrity, we do expect the same from our partners," Rushbrook explained to AP Sports at Daytona ahead of this weekend's NASCAR season-opening Daytona 500.

"It appears to us, and what we’ve been told, [is] that Red Bull is taking the situation very seriously. And of course, they’re worried about their brand, as well.

"That’s why they’ve got an independent investigation and until we see what truth comes out of that, it’s too early for us to comment on it all."
Pressure is applied from all sides.
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#93

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

It would be interesting to know the nature of any messages sent to Horner. by said woman Presumably if these allegations are true, there must have been some return traffic of messages to make Horner continue with it seems more 'adventurous' messages. If she has been repeatedly saying bog off he is in trouble.... but if she has written back saying "meet me behind the bike shed at midday I'll bring the condoms" sort of thing, or if there was some form of relationship going on, it puts a different light on it.
Strange it is always the Dutch press that breaks the stories and updates.
Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.
Im not going to form an opinion based on anything other than something more official than online banter.

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#94

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Another article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chris ... r-BB1inUNM

Key new points:
1. "...a female employee of Red Bull Racing visited the company's headquarters in Austria in December 2023 to report allegations of sexually inappropriate behavior against Christian Horner."

OK, this sets a timeline... meaning that this has been known news inside of Red Bull for over a month.

2. "The employee provided the barrister assigned to the case with text messages as evidence, which De Telegraaf claims to have obtained."

Text messages are bad. It sort of makes people denying everything look like shameless bald-ass liars. If De Telegraaf claims to have the messages, then the messages almost certainly exist.

3. "These messages reportedly demonstrate that Horner had been consistently sending explicit texts to the employee over an extended period of time."

I am guessing that this is probably true. If so, it is extremely stupid of him.

At this point, I think Horner is history. The only thing that may save him is if the messages were relatively innocuous. He could therefore maintain his position and undergo counseling. But... my experience with all of these things is that if one claim shows up, several other claims follow (something like 16-17 of them in the case of Donald Trump). Most likely, Horner's career is over.
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#95

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FYI:

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#96

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Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago Another article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chris ... r-BB1inUNM

Key new points:
1. "...a female employee of Red Bull Racing visited the company's headquarters in Austria in December 2023 to report allegations of sexually inappropriate behavior against Christian Horner."

OK, this sets a timeline... meaning that this has been known news inside of Red Bull for over a month.

2. "The employee provided the barrister assigned to the case with text messages as evidence, which De Telegraaf claims to have obtained."

Text messages are bad. It sort of makes people denying everything look like shameless bald-ass liars. If De Telegraaf claims to have the messages, then the messages almost certainly exist.

3. "These messages reportedly demonstrate that Horner had been consistently sending explicit texts to the employee over an extended period of time."

I am guessing that this is probably true. If so, it is extremely stupid of him.

At this point, I think Horner is history. The only thing that may save him is if the messages were relatively innocuous. He could therefore maintain his position and undergo counseling. But... my experience with all of these things is that if one claim shows up, several other claims follow (something like 16-17 of them in the case of Donald Trump). Most likely, Horner's career is over.
If an explicit evidence was submitted (as it is claimed), why it's taking more than 24 hrs before he is issued a notice of dismissal? There is no need to drag a team down, fuel nightmare PR, and just postponing unavoidable. This is rather bizarre situation. What else is there which needs weeks to talk about?
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#97

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

The fact he allegedly sent repeated messages opens a bit of a door.... which depending on how the door swings is either good or bad for Horner.
IF he did sent suggestive messages, for them to have become repetitive one would imagine they were not ignored by said employee. Were her responses encouraging him? Did they in fact 'have a bit of a fling?' That might mitigate things slightly.
If however the responses to Horner were of a pi55 off tone and he continued to virtually stalk her, he is done. Especially if he indicated inffluence (good or bad) to her working situation. And if the offer of a bribe to not throw it open is true.....
If these alleged messages dont exist and Der Telegraf has fabricated them, or taken someone elses word they exist, I hope they have a good lawyer.
I may be wrong but the longer this goes on the more I think there is substance to this. If it was a case of "nothing to see here" it would have been communicated that way on Friday.

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#98

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Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago The fact he allegedly sent repeated messages opens a bit of a door.... which depending on how the door swings is either good or bad for Horner.
IF he did sent suggestive messages, for them to have become repetitive one would imagine they were not ignored by said employee. Were her responses encouraging him? Did they in fact 'have a bit of a fling?' That might mitigate things slightly.
If however the responses to Horner were of a pi55 off tone and he continued to virtually stalk her, he is done. Especially if he indicated inffluence (good or bad) to her working situation. And if the offer of a bribe to not throw it open is true.....
If these alleged messages dont exist and Der Telegraf has fabricated them, or taken someone elses word they exist, I hope they have a good lawyer.
I may be wrong but the longer this goes on the more I think there is substance to this. If it was a case of "nothing to see here" it would have been communicated that way on Friday.
I am assuming that people working on the inside of a F1 unit possess above average inteligence. If the female in this saga encouraged him, and then reported all of it to the owner, that's a story hard to swallow. Smart people don't do that. There might had been one or two emails initially which tickled her ego (boss likes me), but then probably quickly it has become bothersome. It can be understood in those terms based on her need to make trip to Salzburg. They should resolve it quickly, and stop media talking about boss will be there until first race, if not after that (and then what?).
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#99

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DoubleFart wrote: 1 month ago Call me a cynic, but let me guess, another "victim" who let it happen repeatedly, then got burnt by him rejecting an advance, or she saw dollar signs, and then decided after months that suddenly it was now inappropriate?
Maybe, but then again, maybe not. It's hard to say who did what and who is to blame. It's tough when your boss decides to act that way or just generally treats you badly. A job I did when I first left school had a difficult/nasty boss. I left because of him, another woman who worked for him used to regularly go into the storeroom and have a good cry.
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#100

Post by LewisN1 »

Aty wrote: 2 months ago Yea, all that, but why now? Timing... Somebody wants to create trouble for Max. The alledged incident happened end of last year, if I am not mistaken.

If I have t put it in my crude description, Horner (it was said) thinks it's Austrian project. (Not necessarily Marko.)
I think you're onto something here, deffinetly fishy stuff..
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#101

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

I am not 100% conviced by these allegations, if the text messages are really of a sexual nature then I guess that Horner would have already been indicted before a court of law and he would not have been allowed to attend the launch of RB's 2024 car. Given that after so many days we have seen nothing yet and given that it's "only" been investigated by a lawyer then I might be tempted to believe that there isn't much apart from some smoke (ie. some inappropriate sentences of a very mild and debatable nature). Of course I could be proven wrong, all I can say is that as a lawyer with a number of corporate positions over the years I have seen plenty of this staff and it's probably not as bad as some claim it is (if it were serious the employee would have already sued both Horner as well as RBR and rightly so).

Having said that I would never ever send text messages to a female employee (or if I was a woman to a male employee), and I would never offer them a lift in my car, have a meeting behind closed doors, ask her to a bar if someone else is not there as well etc, right or wrong these days some (harmless?) behaviours can lead to very unplesant consequences, what strikes me is that Horner didn't seem to know that
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#102

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Latest update: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motors ... 82ec&ei=14

Main line: "..."Red Bull are now seeking to accelerate the process after a claim came from the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that the inappropriate behavior was of a sexual nature." (I did kind of assume that from the start)

My conclusion: Horner will most likely be gone before the 2 March grand prix weekend.
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#103

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Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago Latest update: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motors ... 82ec&ei=14

Main line: "..."Red Bull are now seeking to accelerate the process after a claim came from the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that the inappropriate behavior was of a sexual nature." (I did kind of assume that from the start)

My conclusion: Horner will most likely be gone before the 2 March grand prix weekend.
If it as bad as suggested, why then the barrister let it go for that long?
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#104

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My, oh, my...
De Telegraaf first broke the news that Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner had alleged inappropriate behaviour. Red Bull then announced in a statement that it had launched an internal independent investigation. Then, a few days ago, the Dutch newspaper revealed that it would involve the team principal sending sexually oriented messages. In addition, Horner is said to have offered a sum equivalent to 650.000 pounds to keep the issue quiet.
The internal Red Bull investigation is still ongoing. After an eight-hour conversation with an external lawyer, no conclusions have yet been drawn. Results from the investigation are expected to be shared with the public next week.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/260491/h ... court.html

True or false, these kind of headlines is no good for anyone.
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#105

Post by Ruslan »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago My, oh, my...
De Telegraaf first broke the news that Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner had alleged inappropriate behaviour. Red Bull then announced in a statement that it had launched an internal independent investigation. Then, a few days ago, the Dutch newspaper revealed that it would involve the team principal sending sexually oriented messages. In addition, Horner is said to have offered a sum equivalent to 650.000 pounds to keep the issue quiet.
The internal Red Bull investigation is still ongoing. After an eight-hour conversation with an external lawyer, no conclusions have yet been drawn. Results from the investigation are expected to be shared with the public next week.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/260491/h ... court.html

True or false, these kind of headlines is no good for anyone.
Next week? That appears to confirm my last post.

What will they share next week: he is innocent and this is much ado about nothing? Kind of doubt it.

Looks like they are trying to get a resolution before the first grandprix weekend.
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#106

Post by Aty »

Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago My, oh, my...
De Telegraaf first broke the news that Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner had alleged inappropriate behaviour. Red Bull then announced in a statement that it had launched an internal independent investigation. Then, a few days ago, the Dutch newspaper revealed that it would involve the team principal sending sexually oriented messages. In addition, Horner is said to have offered a sum equivalent to 650.000 pounds to keep the issue quiet.
The internal Red Bull investigation is still ongoing. After an eight-hour conversation with an external lawyer, no conclusions have yet been drawn. Results from the investigation are expected to be shared with the public next week.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/260491/h ... court.html

True or false, these kind of headlines is no good for anyone.
Next week? That appears to confirm my last post.

What will they share next week: he is innocent and this is much ado about nothing? Kind of doubt it.

Looks like they are trying to get a resolution before the first grandprix weekend.
What confuses me is the inconsistency in reporting which casts doubts on strength of the so called evidence. Think of it this way, if barrister saw an inappropriate item of interest, he should have enforced immediate suspension with potential dismissal at the end. But that's not what happened, which raises doubts about strength of the evidence of impropriety. It reality it might had been just borderline deviant behaviour, and the decision what will happen to him is with the owners. Having said that, I have difficulty to see those two on RBR team working side-by-side as if nothing happened.
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