Horner under investigation

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Everso Biggyballies
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#136

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Aty wrote: 1 month ago What on earth the King's barrister is investigating for so long? I bet Sherlock Holmes would be done by now.
I believe he went on vacation immediately after and is not contactable by (or not answering) phones, Im serious. That is what I read.

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#137

Post by Aty »

On vacation? Obviously not life threatening situation then. That's relieve.
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#138

Post by Ruslan »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago What on earth the King's barrister is investigating for so long? I bet Sherlock Holmes would be done by now.
I believe he went on vacation immediately after and is not contactable by (or not answering) phones, Im serious. That is what I read.
That is weird. It just means the case will be tried in the court of public opinion.
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#139

Post by Aty »

Internet:
What is controlling behaviour?
According to the Home Office’s official statutory guidance framework, controlling or coercive behaviour is a “intentional pattern of conduct” in which perpetrators will “use various means to hurt, humiliate, intimidate, exploit, isolate and dominate their victims.”
There are many different behaviours which fall under this conduct, including: physical and sexual violence/abuse, violent behaviour, emotional or psychological abuse, controlling behaviours, restrictive behaviours and threatening behaviours.
When will the decision (what we do with him) be announced?
It isn’t known whether the lawyer leading the investigation is close to coming to a conclusion or not. More interviews may be required, more time may be needed to evaluate evidence, and the report will then have to be presented to the Red Bull board in Austria, who will then make an informed decision. The matter may even be delayed beyond the first race of the season in Bahrain.
Reports in Germany and Austria have suggested that there is pressure from higher-ranking Red Bull employees for Horner to step down voluntarily.
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#140

Post by Michael Ferner »

So, another week went and... [drum roll] ... nothing happened. Again. But, surely NEXT WEEK! we'll know more... :haha:
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#141

Post by Aty »

'Power vacuum at Red Bull: Thai owner refuses to sack Horner'
Matt Gretton
Editor-in-Chief
This power vacuum could have major consequences for the multi-billion-dollar Red Bull company. The Austrian side suspects that 'Horner-gate' will become a breaking point for the entire company. The investigation itself into Horner is not going smoothly either. The investigation was supposed to be conducted by an independent lawyer, but that does not appear to be the case. The Thai owner (Horner's supporter) hired the lawyer, and the final report never arrived in Austria. The lawyer reportedly went on holiday without being contactable by the Austrian delegation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/260362/p ... k=onderaan

Hard to tell, if this is factual. One interpretation of the article is it was over for some time. (Nothing to see here, carry on.) Thai consortium simply ignored their business partners. Moreover, Thai did not consider important to make any public statements on this subject.

It is my understanding that the F1 team is actually owned by Mark Mateschitz. This is then very strange situation (if there is any sign of truth in it). Difficult to believe it. People all over, including administration, are waiting for a closure of this case.
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#142

Post by Aty »

Ford denounce Red Bull in Horner case: 'Didn't get a satisfactory answer'
Kada Sarkozi
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Ford - Red Bull Racing's partner from 2026 - are not happy with the Austrian team, to say the least. That is according to a letter from Ford's CEO to Red Bull, in the possession of news agency AP. In last Friday's letter, Jim Farley urges a quick resolution in the case involving Christian Horner, who has been accused of transgressive behaviour by a female employee.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/261625/f ... nswer.html

We are all waiting, Mr. Farley.
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#143

Post by Ruslan »

Sound like a bit of culture clash here.
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#144

Post by Aty »

Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago Sound like a bit of culture clash here.
Could you elaborate?
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#145

Post by Ruslan »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago Sound like a bit of culture clash here.
Could you elaborate?
Always dangerous as I don't know the management practices of European companies well.

But, it looks like Ford is chomping at the bit to get a resolution, probably because if it was a sexual harassment issue in the U.S. the manager (meaning Horner) would be gone already. Red Bull does seem to be taking its time over what is now a social and PR issue. It would be resolved here now, especially in the 24/7 news cycle (for better or worse). Reading between the lines, I suspect Ford wants it resolved by cashiering Horner immediately.

The added complexity is the two Thai owners, who I gather own 51% of Red Bull, and I gather effectively 51% of the Red Bull F1 Team. I suspect two guys from the international capital of sexual tourism might have a slightly different view of the severity of the situation compared to their European and American counterparts. Have you checked recently what their King of Thailand has been doing?

So yea, clash of cultures.
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#146

Post by Aty »

Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago Sound like a bit of culture clash here.
Could you elaborate?
Always dangerous as I don't know the management practices of European companies well.

But, it looks like Ford is chomping at the bit to get a resolution, probably because if it was a sexual harassment issue in the U.S. the manager (meaning Horner) would be gone already. Red Bull does seem to be taking its time over what is now a social and PR issue. It would be resolved here now, especially in the 24/7 news cycle (for better or worse). Reading between the lines, I suspect Ford wants it resolved by cashiering Horner immediately.

The added complexity is the two Thai owners, who I gather own 51% of Red Bull, and I gather effectively 51% of the Red Bull F1 Team. I suspect two guys from the international capital of sexual tourism might have a slightly different view of the severity of the situation compared to their European and American counterparts. Have you checked recently what their King of Thailand has been doing?

So yea, clash of cultures.
Yes, I agree with you. But there are some issues I don't understand due to contradictory stories one find on the internet. Why it is taking so much time is certainly puzzle.
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#147

Post by Aty »

Farley [Ford's CEO] ended the letter calling for “prompt and serious attention” to the matter.

The Horner investigation has consumed the F1 community as the start of the new season and Max Verstappen’s bid for a fourth consecutive title are just days away. There were reportedly nearly 100 pieces of evidence introduced during a deposition of Horner, who allegedly offered his accuser a six-figure settlement.

His fate, though, is complicated no matter what the investigation finds.
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Ford is RB' corporate partner. AP apparently seen Farley's letter, which supports view that the investigation has not been concluded, and recommendations waiting for ratification. (Per a Finish columnist.)

This stands out for me in his letter:
“We remain insistent on, and hopeful, for a resolution we can all stand behind.”
Suddenly there are more than two opinions what kind of resolution will be ratified.
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#148

Post by Aty »

Well-placed sources told Reuters they expected an announcement from Red Bull’s Salzburg-based Austrian parent company before the race at Sakhir and possibly within the next 48 hours.
Sky Sports television reported the document amounted to well over 100 pages, but the details are likely to remain confidential.
Reuters
Christian Horner has denied all allegations against him.
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#149

Post by Ruslan »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Well-placed sources told Reuters they expected an announcement from Red Bull’s Salzburg-based Austrian parent company before the race at Sakhir and possibly within the next 48 hours.
Sky Sports television reported the document amounted to well over 100 pages, but the details are likely to remain confidential.
Reuters
Christian Horner has denied all allegations against him.
That is probably irrelevant. De Telegraaf is saying that it has seen the messages and they are of a sexual nature. I assume if De Telegraaf has seen the messages, they do have the option to publish them if required (or if requested or if allowed). The female manager who filed the complaint, I am assuming has also provided copies of the messages to Red Bull Austria (if not to De Telegraaf). The message trail either nails him to the wall... or it does not. Does not matter what "PR spin" or "denials" are issued. The answer appears to be documented (or not documented) in the yet unreleased message traffic.
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#150

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago
Well-placed sources told Reuters they expected an announcement from Red Bull’s Salzburg-based Austrian parent company before the race at Sakhir and possibly within the next 48 hours.
Sky Sports television reported the document amounted to well over 100 pages, but the details are likely to remain confidential.
Reuters
Christian Horner has denied all allegations against him.
That is probably irrelevant. De Telegraaf is saying that it has seen the messages and they are of a sexual nature. I assume if De Telegraaf has seen the messages, they do have the option to publish them if required (or if requested or if allowed). The female manager who filed the complaint, I am assuming has also provided copies of the messages to Red Bull Austria (if not to De Telegraaf). The message trail either nails him to the wall... or it does not. Does not matter what "PR spin" or "denials" are issued. The answer appears to be documented (or not documented) in the yet unreleased message traffic.
I don't think that De Telegraaf can publish the emails, especially if they are of a sexual nature. In most EU jurisdictions it is illegal to publish any evidence pertaining to an ongoing criminal investigation before such evidence is shown in a court hearing. Obviously there are "ways" around this, in Italy for example until a few years ago it was common to see on some papers "extracts" of phone tapings or similar, most of the time they proved false and only a way to harm a political opponent.

In terms of this case I don't think that De Telegraaf or any other paper will publish such documents because Horner or Red Bull are not big enough fish and so in the end De Telegraaf would have to pay a fine (as is always the case when they publish documents that are still priviledged) and I doubt that they would sell more copies to offset the costs of the fine so in economic terms it's a loss, I think that outside F1 fans very few people are interested. As a general rule I'd say that if a story doesn't attract wide public awareness the less likely it is to be (entirely) false (even if I struggle to see how there could be any juice in such allegations and the police/prosecutor hasn't stepped in yet)
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#151

Post by Aty »

It is unfortunate development in any time, but as we are gearing up to the longest season ever, this is a case no one needs. To be frank, I don't see how CH can continue working there, regardless what the recommendation is. It is possible that he is waiting for declaration of his innocence, and next day he will quit under whatever pretences he wants. I would not be surprised of such ending. Put it differently, I think his life with RBR is terminal.
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