From what I have read on races reports, the chance for a tyre to explode because of overheating where not far from zero, not to say zero.It wld rather be deflating tyres situations, but as it is a progressive reaction of the tyre, can it be modelled on the GPL engine, and how wld the driver feel the effects on the steering wheel ?. Maybe only a different degree of random failure for each car.
I can find tyres problem statistics race by race, but need to read again and again reports.
In terms of "evidence", what do you guys make of the reports of Richie Ginther's crash at Monza in 1966?
Assetto Corsa uses it as a way of maxing out tyre temps without hitting a limit. I think it's more a way to simulate delamination rather than exploding due to pressure.
As I said, my numbers are just what pressure the tyre would have at a given temperature. They don't take into account, any of the other factors acting on the tyre. I'm sure that if you work the tyre too hard for too long you'd get material fatigue long before the pressure limit. I've only seen car tyres explode when the car was on fire. It's fair to say that material fatigue is more important to tyre failures than just pressure. I can see how heat plays into that, but I have no idea at what temperatures that would start to be an issue. Mechanical strain is in my mind the main driver, that is more pronounced at lower pressure, since the tyre just moves more under load.
Ginther's crash reads like a puncture under braking to me.
Michkov wrote: ↑2 months ago
As I said, my numbers are just what pressure the tyre would have at a given temperature. They don't take into account, any of the other factors acting on the tyre. I'm sure that if you work the tyre too hard for too long you'd get material fatigue long before the pressure limit. I've only seen car tyres explode when the car was on fire. It's fair to say that material fatigue is more important to tyre failures than just pressure. I can see how heat plays into that, but I have no idea at what temperatures that would start to be an issue. Mechanical strain is in my mind the main driver, that is more pronounced at lower pressure, since the tyre just moves more under load.
Ginther's crash reads like a puncture under braking to me.
It's a feature I'm okay to omit. Or maybe I can make it a super high temp just so it's there as a useless feature.
I was able to make headway on another new feature I wanted to add today, which was having some separate physics for the Trainer and Advanced Trainer cars. They already have their own engines by default, but just use the same weight, drag and tyre physics as the full Grand Prix car. The two car types I planned to simulate were F3 and Tasman but now I'm wondering if I should make one of the trainer cars something else, like, I dunno, an Indycar.
-+1 more. Yesterday I had a short amount of free time and managed to crack (a linear representation of) relaxation length I thought it would never be possible but there you go!
Explanation: When you apply a force to a tyre, it takes time for the material to react and then relax back to a steady state. In GPL the reaction is instant which makes the handling very direct and predictable at all speeds. What this patch does is increase the amount of time it takes for the tyre to reach its calculated slip angle. The faster the wheel speed, the longer it takes the effect to happen. This means at higher speeds the car has much less twitchy steering, but it is also lazy to react to inputs. I've found it actually makes the car a little looser at high speeds but at the same time easier to control.
Since that was really the last thing I wanted to complete I can start with compiling a public demo
Way cool development. So I get this right, we are talking about the lag in where the rim is pointing vs where the contact patch is pointing and how quick the two directions follow each other? Can you explain why it takes longer when the wheel is going faster?
Michkov wrote: ↑3 weeks ago
Way cool development. So I get this right, we are talking about the lag in where the rim is pointing vs where the contact patch is pointing and how quick the two directions follow each other? Can you explain why it takes longer when the wheel is going faster?
That's how I understand it yes. Although, maybe I got it wrong. I should divide by tyre rotational velocity not multiply Since the formula is based on time delay, the delay should be shorter as the wheel spins faster.
Query about a potential feature. Not all cars in the 67 season had rev limiters or if they did they could adjust them so that at circuits like Monza they could use extra revs at the expense of engine reliability.
Today I found the rev limiter code and, using the Assymetrical Setup checkbox, also found we could make such a modification to the RPM limit in the car setup menu.
So, the options are as follows for checkbox behaviour:
Option 1: Checkbox disables rev limiter
Option 2: Checkbox increases max RPM by 500 (but damage limit remains as per usual)
Option 3: Neither / no change
I'd disable it for the cars that don't have it, and have a checkbox to increase the RPM at the expense of engine life and/or reliability for those that have that option in real life.
I don't know, it might sound harsh, but the GPL community has always put realism above all else, so I don't think they would question it too much. If possible, I would perhaps make this feature optional in the options menu or during installation, just in case?
One question Paul, is it possible to make the player susceptible to random mechanical failures like the AI?
leon_90 wrote: ↑4 days ago
I'd disable it for the cars that don't have it, and have a checkbox to increase the RPM at the expense of engine life and/or reliability for those that have that option in real life.
I don't know, it might sound harsh, but the GPL community has always put realism above all else, so I don't think they would question it too much. If possible, I would perhaps make this feature optional in the options menu or during installation, just in case?
One question Paul, is it possible to make the player susceptible to random mechanical failures like the AI?
Doing it on a per car basis is not feasible (no space for the data and I have no idea/record of which cars had limiters). The only question is whether to remove the current RPM limit (my preference) or just increase it slightly when the box in Car Setup is ticked.
Random failures: I think there already is, just that the probability is set very low. I can increase it if you want to break down more
PTRACER wrote: ↑4 days ago
Doing it on a per car basis is not feasible (no space for the data and I have no idea/record of which cars had limiters). The only question is whether to remove the current RPM limit (my preference) or just increase it slightly when the box in Car Setup is ticked.
Mm, I see. Well, I'd just remove it then. It's all over the books about how important it was to control the revs in those days, both in endurance (obviously) and sprint races, whatever the format or formula. Go over the threshold and your engine should be toast. That's how it was. ORM's F1 1965 mod for rFactor includes this behaviour, with the lead dev going through this and other stuff with advice from Forghieri.
PTRACER wrote: ↑4 days ago
Random failures: I think there already is, just that the probability is set very low. I can increase it if you want to break down more
I just think that the player should be on a level playing field with the AI. Otherwise you're just invincible unless you crash and that's no fun. GP2 and AMS2 have that and they're both fun. It could be annoying, I understand that, but you signed up knowing the rules of the game
PTRACER wrote: ↑4 days ago
Random failures: I think there already is, just that the probability is set very low. I can increase it if you want to break down more
Is there any way to create non-race ending failures?
Eg: The car can carry on down a cylinder, etc?
I know back in the day when I did play GPL (a lifetime ago now), you could bugger your engine, and it would carry on a bit before going off like a flare. But I'm thinking about failures that you didn't directly cause (just bad luck, general Chapman-esque minimal viable product things) that you might be able to nurse or drive around.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.
@Michkov - No the checkbox will have dual usage (Assym. Setup + Disable Rev Limiter). So you'd have to remember to uncheck after you're done playing with your setup. I think that's the biggest potential issue with this.
@MonteCristo Potentially. I'm thinking something like - "If code rolls a 7-7-7 (since damage is a random number generation system), do Power x 0.95". That would simulate say, loss of a cylinder. It wouldn't come up on the race report though. Random failures should already be a part of the game but probability is so low you mostly won't experience them.
So @leon_90 - maybe we can double or even triple the probability for the demo release and see what happens?
PTRACER wrote: ↑3 days ago
@MonteCristo Potentially. I'm thinking something like - "If code rolls a 7-7-7 (since damage is a random number generation system), do Power x 0.95". That would simulate say, loss of a cylinder. It wouldn't come up on the race report though. Random failures should already be a part of the game but probability is so low you mostly won't experience them.
I suppose the next question then is how you inform the driver.
If you're driving in real life, you can hear a change in engine note, or hear (or maybe feel in a small car?) a knock. But aside from power dropping 5%, and lap times going down all of a sudden for no reason, it would be hard to tell that you're meant to be nursing a problem.
Obviously the car can trail smoke, so maybe that's one way of notifying them. But not sure what else there is.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.
I thought it would never be possible but there you go!
Since the formula is based on time delay, the delay should be shorter as the wheel spins faster.
