2025 Driver Market

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Aty
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#601

Post by Aty »

Bottom post of the previous page:

GP247 - Monza - Sauber
As for the timeline to decide the driver. “I think we’ll decide as soon as possible, without a doubt, because we have to set up the team for next year and for the future. We also have to stop any speculation, because it’s not in our interest,” concluded Binotto.
Hopefully this will end long awaited suspense.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2024/09/05 ... -possible/
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Everso Biggyballies
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#602

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 4 weeks ago
How deep and how quickly almighty has fallen.
Almost as quickly but not quite as far as Mercedes fell after 2021. Of course it could not be said that Mercedes has yet fully recovered, certainly not to their previous dominance. They are still not at a level to call themselves consistently a a top two team. Of course it drove their team to fracture, lose key personnel and ultimately their multi championship winning driver. Having had their previous Champion walk out on them days after his success. They currently run 4th in the Constructors Championship

At least Horner and his merry gang have not fallen to the continued lows of Mercedes. Red Bull are what, 8 races since their last victory. Mercedes went from winning multiple races (9) in 2021 to not winning again until well into 2024, and then only as a result other teams failures and their own total fluke when Max and Lando took away their own potential wins by stupidity, thus gifting Mercedes their first win in years.

Only last race but one we saw no Mercedes near the podium yet Red Bull were on the podium.

How did Toto manage to retain his position as Team Principal? Oh of course, he is a majority owner of the team. Living on a reputation forged over running a dominant team.

Red Bull's fall from grace is far less as dramatic or complete than Mercedes ever was. Red Bull have gone just 8 races since their last win and 1 race since their last podium. Mercedes collectively have scored just 6 podiums this year.

Maybe if Red Bull fail to win a race from now until well into the new regulations will Red Bull be able to have fallen from grace to the same clueless and rudderless scenario that Mercedes plummeted to.

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Aty
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#603

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 weeks ago
Aty wrote: 4 weeks ago
How deep and how quickly almighty has fallen.
How did Toto manage to retain his position as Team Principal? Oh of course, he is a majority owner of the team. Living on a reputation forged over running a dominant team.
Well, the truth of the matter is, all principals ride wave generated by someone else (Max, Leclerc, Newey, Stella...and many more, that includes Brawn). Toto is no exception. I don't however spent much of my time thinking what's going on with Mercedes team. I've felt in love with magic Max produces on the track. I don't spent (waste my) time over what CH says or does. RB is a place of work where Max operates, and for me there is nothing more to it.
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#604

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Nico Rosberg, the 2016 Formula 1 Champion, claims George Russell’s future at Mercedes is not safe with his boss Toto Wolff still targeting Max Verstappen.

Ever since Lewis Hamilton announced his departure to Ferrari in 2025, the worst-kept secret within the F1 paddock was that Wolff was courting Verstappen, trying to lure him to Mercedes, which was a possibility given the controversy that rocked Red Bull with Christian Horner’s sexting scandal in addition to the civil war that erupted within the team in which Jos Verstappen was an active member, not to mention the departure of Adrian Newey.
https://www.grandprix247.com/2024/09/06 ... tappen-f1/

Rosberg is suggesting we can expect shoot-out next season between Mercedes teammates. Stake is their future with the team. If so, rivalry could add some pepper to racing. Adding RB's effort to keep Max, it all may turn into an interesting season. (Assumption is, that Antonelli will prove himself as the driver to keep over Russell.)
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#605

Post by Vassago »

I'm not surprised. Russell just doesn't have "it" when it comes to being a WDC challenger. Even if you'd add the DQ points for Spa win, he'd still be behind almost 40-year old Hamilton in the standings. Might as well take a risk with Antonelli and try to poach Verstappen.
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#606

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Is Norris being slowly replaced by Piastri as a team's preferred child? I am not following his contractual commitments, but I have feeling that should he receive an offer from another front team, he would jump, surprising as that would be. Behind curtain movement resulted with Brown taking mike and hurrying up to assure loyalists that Norris really love McLaren. Why was that needed?

It is strange stituation at Mclaren right now. In one moment they went public abouit treating both drivers equally, yet several hours later they issued a new communiqué that they might begin issuing team orders. (In the hunt for either, or both titles.) So, guys, who is in the wheel house? I am guessing they are only learning how to behave as a top team (old guys are gone), and after reading various articles, they follow direction wind is blowing.
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#607

Post by DoubleFart »

So one week Norris is favoured, now he's not, and all that's changed is the team explicitly saying that Norris might be favoured?

Ok.
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#608

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Lando was never going to win in Monza once he and McLaren collectively talked each other out of a one stop race. Maybe the Piastri thing cost 3 points to Norris, but as Lando himself says he made mistakes of his own in the opening lap.

Realistically McLaren are targetting the WCC. With an 8 points per race (nearest whole numbers, its actually 7.75) it is a big uphill climb to do the WDC although clearly it is possible.

However with Mercedes admitting their car is heading downhill and less drivable with the last update, and Red Bull believing they have found their own 'smoking gun' I think Max will ultimately be a comfortable WDC this year. McLaren have admitted they have upgrades they are fearfull of introducing because of the risk of joining others (ie RB and Merc) who have overdeveloped areas trying to find hundredths of seconds, and in turn losing the overall balance of the car and losing tenths. Ultimately upgrades making the car to erratic and difficult to set up. Upgrades that effectively are too knife edge to be a risk free path to performance. Red Bull now know their upgrade simulations and CFD are not being replicated physically on track.

Of course, Red Bull may have to step backwards in development to actually move forwards in performance.. Ironically it seems Sergio has been telling them of the issues since Miami and they only listened to Max who now is agreeing with Sergio. So only now are Red Bull close to fixing their issues. Maybe had they listened to their much maligned #2 earlier in the piece.... of course that Max can get more out of any car than others makes any such claim a bit of an open ended one as obviously Max is gaining more from even the knife edge car than others.

However, clearly Max should have maybe listened more to Sergio's observations than trying to drive round the points Sergio has beensince Miami saying.

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#609

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 weeks ago Lando was never going to win in Monza once he and McLaren collectively talked each other out of a one stop race. Maybe the Piastri thing cost 3 points to Norris, but as Lando himself says he made mistakes of his own in the opening lap.

Realistically McLaren are targetting the WCC. With an 8 points per race (nearest whole numbers, its actually 7.75) it is a big uphill climb to do the WDC although clearly it is possible.

However with Mercedes admitting their car is heading downhill and less drivable with the last update, and Red Bull believing they have found their own 'smoking gun' I think Max will ultimately be a comfortable WDC this year. McLaren have admitted they have upgrades they are fearfull of introducing because of the risk of joining others (ie RB and Merc) who have overdeveloped areas trying to find hundredths of seconds, and in turn losing the overall balance of the car and losing tenths. Ultimately upgrades making the car to erratic and difficult to set up. Upgrades that effectively are too knife edge to be a risk free path to performance. Red Bull now know their upgrade simulations and CFD are not being replicated physically on track.

Of course, Red Bull may have to step backwards in development to actually move forwards in performance.. Ironically it seems Sergio has been telling them of the issues since Miami and they only listened to Max who now is agreeing with Sergio. So only now are Red Bull close to fixing their issues. Maybe had they listened to their much maligned #2 earlier in the piece.... of course that Max can get more out of any car than others makes any such claim a bit of an open ended one as obviously Max is gaining more from even the knife edge car than others.

However, clearly Max should have maybe listened more to Sergio's observations than trying to drive round the points Sergio has beensince Miami saying.
I also think Max will win WDC (unless disaster strikes), but comfortable? Sorry, but comfortable it will be not. Last two races Max was down on the Finish line, and I have my doubts suddenly he wiil move on the podium. Much will depends how McLaren will play their cards. Piastri can make himself pretty wide, and hold Max for enough time to have Norris building gap and slotting ahead of RB after pitstop. McLaren is fast, RB...little less so.
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#610

Post by erwin greven »

The next two races won't show much improvement, but then it should improve.
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#611

Post by Aty »

erwin greven wrote: 3 weeks ago The next two races won't show much improvement, but then it should improve.
Let's hope so. I am not saying Max must win every race just to please me, but the champ sunk as deep as he was recently is degrading whole game. If rivals want appropriate his title, lets do it in cars with winning potential.
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#612

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Is F2 series useful or just waste of money? Some may suggest a lot of open discrimination going on in hiring young drivers. It comes to either moving F1 out of UK, or drastic change of rules and personell in decision making functions.
(Motorsport-Total.com) - When it comes to the open Sauber cockpit for the coming year, a surprisingly rare name is mentioned: Theo Pourchaire. The Frenchman actually has the ideal conditions. The 21-year-old is the reigning Formula 2 champion and has been part of the Sauber Academy for years. And alongside Nico Hülkenberg, Pourchaire could learn a lot.

And yet he seems to be on the sidelines in the fight for the cockpit. He was not even allowed to play the Friday training for the Swiss - Ferrari junior Robert Schwarzman was surprisingly allowed to do so in Zandvoort. (Isn't Schwarzman a Russian?)

"I don't know. I did my best on the track. Surely there are people who say that it doesn't look great when you win Formula 2 in the third year, but I won it at the age of 20," he says. "I'm the youngest race winner in Formula 2 and Formula 3. I don't have to prove anything at all. I only need one option, nothing more.”

But they don't always exist in Formula 1. Predecessor Felipe Drugovich is also one of the drivers who have won Formula 2 and have not yet had a chance. However, other drivers such as Logan Sargeant, Guanyu Zhou or recently Franco Colapinto have received them, although they did not win the Formula 2.

"If you're in my position, that looks unfair, of course," he has to admit. "I think it's also unfair to Drugovich, for example. He won the title, but it is as it is. This is the Formula 1 world," says Pourchaire.

Theo Pourchaire: I wonder every day why I don't get a F1 chance. Pourchaire has been a Sauber junior and test driver for several years Zoom Download

"It's a little sad, but I'm still here and deserving my chance," Pourchaire said. "I hope I can get them one day. I'm ready to give everything. I just have so much passion for this sport," he emphasizes. "I'm not asking for anything. I just want a seat and a steering wheel and my chance in the car."
I don't know about Sauber's hiring criteria, and how Theo fits in, but still, Sauber has only one seat available. What about the others? One wonders if there should be on age limit, or years served in the series and forcing rotation that way. Hamilton and Alonso had their shot. That's two out right there.
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#613

Post by DoubleFart »

Oh yes, another excuse to criticise F1 for having roots in the UK, despite that having zero relevance.
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#614

Post by Michael Ferner »

Nothing new, F2 champions always had a hard time finding a seat in F1. Some got only very questionable deals (Henton, Fabi, Palmer, Danner), some part-time drives (Jabouille, Giacomelli) and some nothing at all (Lees, Thackwell, Müller), while other drivers from lower down the F2 order (or even from F3) got promoted. A title always looks good on your CV, but if you can't answer tough questions in your interview your CV is a worthless slip of paper.
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#615

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Binotto (Audi) wants to make a call on a second driver ASAP. Problem is, they are still undecided on selection criteria. Should they go after experience, or something else, as he put it at Imola. Binotto said the team did not want to wait too long before making a call, as there were wider issues in lifting performance that it could not afford to get distracted from.

Names mentioned:

Bottas
Pourchaire
Bortoleto
Mick Schumacher
Liam Lawson

...and a few more. Noted is absence of Zhou in these kind of speculations. China is important market for Audi, and having him driving with Hulk would be commercially good call. Fact is, for next year (only) it may matter little who drives. That car is cursed.
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#616

Post by Aty »

Latest speculation by internet media caught me off guard. Apparently Max's next destination will not be Mercedes, but Aston Martin with a best car on the grid.

OK, good luck to him.

I don't know what Max will decide, but I can safely bet that he is not heading to Hinwil. At least not any time soon.
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