2025 Driver Market

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Star
Special Member
Special Member
Posts: 3149
Joined: 4 years ago
Real Name: Gill
Favourite Motorsport: F1
Favourite Driver: Sebastian Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Spa
Location: England

#286

Post by Star »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago
Star wrote: 1 month ago Just to add some fuel to the fire over whether or not Antonelli will be racing at Mercedes, and potentially even this year, this has happened:-
Now, no one is saying anything specific, but it does make you wonder doesn't it? Or it could just be me ;)

Edit: Thinking about it, maybe they want to put Antonelli in a Williams this season to see how well he goes. If they do, it might be cheerio Sargeant I would think.
I said similar a couple of days ago.... before they lowered the age of holding the license. Great minds etc :haha:
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago .......Bearman to Haas and Antonelli to Mercedes for 2025 seems all but assured. Given from all accounts there are no opportunities for Antonelli at Williams for 2025 given the Sainz expectation, might we see Sargeant replaced by Antonelli at Williams fro Monza on when Antonelli will have a proper Superlicence. Allow Antonelli to make his F1 race debut and prove himself to be the next coming......
.
Actually I find the about turn amusing in a flip flop sort of way. It was only recently they upped the minimum age to 18 because of concerns over Max being so young when he started. I guess he has proved the age concens were wrong though.
I missed seeing you had written that, but yeah, great minds ;) It would make a lot of sense when you think about it. Antonelli would have muchless pressure and he surely can't do a worse job than Sargeant can he?
Just so you know, I am a woman

2022 Guess The Pole Champion!
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#287

Post by Aty »

We could see Antonelli in FP in Spain, says GP247. (My appology is this was already posted somewhere.)
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 50657
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#288

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Star wrote: 1 month ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago
Star wrote: 1 month ago Just to add some fuel to the fire over whether or not Antonelli will be racing at Mercedes, and potentially even this year, this has happened:-


Now, no one is saying anything specific, but it does make you wonder doesn't it? Or it could just be me ;)

Edit: Thinking about it, maybe they want to put Antonelli in a Williams this season to see how well he goes. If they do, it might be cheerio Sargeant I would think.
I said similar a couple of days ago.... before they lowered the age of holding the license. Great minds etc :haha:
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago .......Bearman to Haas and Antonelli to Mercedes for 2025 seems all but assured. Given from all accounts there are no opportunities for Antonelli at Williams for 2025 given the Sainz expectation, might we see Sargeant replaced by Antonelli at Williams fro Monza on when Antonelli will have a proper Superlicence. Allow Antonelli to make his F1 race debut and prove himself to be the next coming......
.
Actually I find the about turn amusing in a flip flop sort of way. It was only recently they upped the minimum age to 18 because of concerns over Max being so young when he started. I guess he has proved the age concens were wrong though.
I missed seeing you had written that, but yeah, great minds ;) It would make a lot of sense when you think about it. Antonelli would have muchless pressure and he surely can't do a worse job than Sargeant can he?
The only thing that says it might not happen was that a couple of months ago when the thought of Antonelli replacing Sargeant first came up Toto said it wouldnt happen.... even though Williams had put in an exemption be granted to Antonelli to allow it. As it happens no exemption will now be needed given the FIA reducing the age limit to 17.

At the time Toto said the plan was for Antonelli to complete the F2 rounds as per the 'masterplan.. There are F2 rounds at Spa Monza Baku, Lusail and Abu Dhabi Grand Prix so depending on whether Toto has changed his mind it doesnt fit in with the original plan., Maybe Antonelli will just do some FP1 runs.... nothing to stop him doing a couple with Williams and a couple with Mercedes, and every team has to give at least two rookie drivers an FP1 session to meet the regs. Two GPs that dont have F2 rounds are Austin and Las Vegas, which are home races for Sargeant. I know there is no room for niceness in F1 butt maybe Williams would like to run Sargeant in those two for the local PR benefits

I guess it all depends on how fixed Toto is on his original plan to make Antonelli concentrate on the F2 championship. Not that Antonelli is setting things alight in F2 to date. He is doing ok, but has yet to finish on the podium let alone win a race, and certainly isnt in the running to win the championship.

To be brutally honest I dont think he is ready for F1 yet. Maybe had he blitzed F2 I would think differently, but to me he has been a bit underwhelming relative to all the hype. I think he needs another year in F2, and throwing him into F1 might be too early for him. As a benchmark there are no Leclerc's or Russells or even Piastris in it this year. (They are the most recent 3 F2 Champions to now be on the grid still... Mick Schu won F2 in 2020 ) Without thinking too hard I think Tsunoda is the last F2 non champion to still be in F11, and its taken him a good three years to find his F1 feet.

The sensible thing would be to put Ocon or Bottas in the Merc for a year and give Antonelli a better grounding rather than throw him in the deep end , rather than do what Kimi managed to do which, with Max was the last time anyone did such a short amount of feeder races and then jumped straight to F1.

Kimi only did a total of something like 23 junior races mainly in Formula Renault before getting spotted by Peter Sauber and given a test and getting a provisional superlicence.. But Kimi blitzed his feeder races finishing many on the top step and the rest on the podium. Lewis although he made a big impression had done several years in feeder series. Max was the closest to doing a Kimi with one full year in F3 plus some other junior events, about 50 races in all. Max, like Kimi won a number of feeder races and many podiums as well. Both Kimi and Max avoided any F2. But Antonelli is no Kimi or Max thats for sure.

I honestly think he is a bit overhyped and has had too much expectation thrust on him too early. Replacing Hamilton are big boots for a rookie to fill. But whatever is in Toto's mind will be what happens. Williams I am sure are looking for an excuse to get Logan out of the system and Antonelli is an easy option.

I have no doubt he will be doing a few FP1's this year, but beyond that is for Toto's head to unravel. But thats just my opinion.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#289

Post by Aty »

FiA vs Antonelli
The FIA has updated Appendix L of its International Sporting Code to add a clause that states that, although the minimum age for the superlicence required to drive in F1 is 18 years old, special dispensation may be granted to certain drivers to receive one at 17.
This has also affected the requirements for a free practice-only superlicence, which follows the same wording and means that Antonelli could make his FP1 debut prior to his 18th birthday on 25 August.
Article 13.1.2 of Appendix L reads: "At the sole discretion of the FIA, a driver judged to have recently and consistently demonstrated outstanding ability and maturity in single-seater formula car competition may be granted a Super Licence at the age of 17 years old."
Antonelli has long been expected to take the vacant Mercedes seat for 2025
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10623386/

It's easy. If law is inconvenient, just change the law. I wish I could explain this to all those traffic cops on Canadian highways giving me speeding tickets and threatening me with taking my driver license away.
User avatar
Star
Special Member
Special Member
Posts: 3149
Joined: 4 years ago
Real Name: Gill
Favourite Motorsport: F1
Favourite Driver: Sebastian Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Spa
Location: England

#290

Post by Star »

So from what you say @Everso Biggyballies it looks like Antonelli probably isn't ready for F1 yet then by the sound of it. If he's not, I hope they don't push him too hard and ruin his career, it's been done before. All the hype and so on is lovely, but it heaps pressure on a person and he may not be ready for that at his tender age.
Just so you know, I am a woman

2022 Guess The Pole Champion!
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 4 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#291

Post by Ruslan »

OK, the rumor is that Sainz has been offered a four year contract by Williams with the option to break it after two years is they don't measure up. https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sa ... eak-clause
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#292

Post by Aty »

So, Williams is much better option over Audi?. On which parameters Williams is better? Two or three places ahead of Sauber? Big deal. Are they offerring Sainz a place on podium in next two years? Vowles talks sweet, but what I am hearing is a promise - we will do, etc. That's Paddy Lowe style talk. How many times in history we heard this kind of talk from that place? As far as I can tell, Audi is quiet, not promissing anything, but they set their goal, and work steadily and hard already on everything important. No unnecessary talk. Sainz, unless he wants to sit this one out, has two options. One bad one, and the other one slightly worse than that. No podiums in next little while anywhere. That's the bottom line and reality.

Mercedes will not take him, RB will not take him, AM or Mclaren will not take him. It's travesty that such good racer is pushed aside in favor of what... It's sometimes incomprehensible how F1 operates.
DoubleFart
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 5414
Joined: 9 years ago
Real Name: YouKnowWho
Favourite Motorsport: F1

#293

Post by DoubleFart »

I'd take a 2 year break clause at Williams over 3 years locked in at Sauber.
Gavle Yule Goat Predictor 2018, 2019 and 2021 Champion
MonteCristo wrote: 2 years agoVettel: Not a fan at all on track. But off track, good guy.
P. Cornelius Scipio
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 306
Joined: 4 years ago
Favourite Driver: Gilles Villeneuve

#294

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

I think that Andrea Antonelli has a lot of talent however he hasn't set the world on fire in F2, IMHO Toto is rushing things by putting him at the wheel of a Mercedes for 2025, IMHO before joining F1 he needs to win a few F2 races, that would be a great boost for his confidence. He needs to join F1 as a winner, so far this season he hasn't delivered, if he has a few difficult races at the beginning of his F1 career it will be very tough for him
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 50657
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#295

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 1 month ago I think that Andrea Antonelli has a lot of talent however he hasn't set the world on fire in F2, IMHO Toto is rushing things by putting him at the wheel of a Mercedes for 2025, IMHO before joining F1 he needs to win a few F2 races, that would be a great boost for his confidence. He needs to join F1 as a winner, so far this season he hasn't delivered, if he has a few difficult races at the beginning of his F1 career it will be very tough for him
Indeed, I think a few of us here are singing from the same hymn sheet. I know I am.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#296

Post by Aty »

A few articles do suggest that Antonelli might replace Sargeant and finish 2024 season at Williams. (Test by fire?)
User avatar
MonteCristo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11065
Joined: 8 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Openwheel
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34/Protos
Favourite Driver: JV
Favourite Circuit: Road America
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#297

Post by MonteCristo »

I'm sure they know him far better than we do.

But... ultimately results speak the greatest truth in this business, and I haven't seen anything to get earth shatteringly excited about.

Even last year in Formula Regional, he won, but I wouldn't call it outright dominance. He did win pretty handily in F4 at least in 2022.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.

2012 GTP Non-Championship Champion | 2012 Guess the Kai-Star Half Marathon Time Champion | 2018 GTP Champion | 2019 GTP Champion
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#298

Post by Aty »

Former driver Ralf Schumacher is expecting Carlos Sainz's next move in Formula 1 to be announced "this week".

Ahead of his home Spanish GP this weekend, the Ferrari refugee told the local Antena 3 broadcaster that he initially struggled to accept the news that he would be replaced for 2025 by Lewis Hamilton.

Obviously you don't take it well, said Sainz. "No one likes being left behind, no? I had very good years at Ferrari, I started the year very well, but a seven time world champion wanted to come and they made room for him.

But I also see it as an opportunity for the future, because I still want to be world champion.

The big paddock buzz is that Sainz actually put pen to paper on a Williams deal last time out in Canada.

If the rumours are to be believed, Sainz has signed with Williams and that will be announced this week, former F1 driver Schumacher told Sky Deutschland.
So, looks like it's not Audi.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 50657
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#299

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I believe the deal they offered Sainz was locking him into past 2026 . With Williams, if it all turns to crap he can leave after two years when other opportunities might arise. Like if Max bails on Red Bull in 2026

There seems to be a lot of concern over the likely performance of the Audi engine given their inexperience in F1 terms, and the likleyhood their initial engine will be not up to scratcjh. Like Honda when they returned after a few years out. The expectation is that the Mercedes engine Williams will have will be a better bet, plus the fact that the 2025 and 26 cars will be with the benefit of the investment and new systems that Dorilton have been introducing since taking over from the underfinanced days of the Williams family.

At the last major engine change Williams outperformed Ferrari. In fact they outperformed everyone bar Mercedes and Red Bull, scoring decent points every race of the season..

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 4 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#300

Post by Ruslan »

MonteCristo wrote: 4 weeks ago I'm sure they know him far better than we do.

But... ultimately results speak the greatest truth in this business, and I haven't seen anything to get earth shatteringly excited about.

Even last year in Formula Regional, he won, but I wouldn't call it outright dominance. He did win pretty handily in F4 at least in 2022.
There were three drivers in the last three decades I can think of that were brought up from the junior formulas without the clear proven track record in the junior formulas (F3 and F2). They were Raikkonen (21 wins, 1 WC, 18 poles, 46 FL !!!), Hulkenberg (1 pole. 1 FL), and Frentzen (3 W, 2 poles, 6 FL).

So does this mean that there is a 1-in-3 chance that Antonelli will work out for Mercedes?
Aty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2615
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Europe

#301

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 weeks ago I believe the deal they offered Sainz was locking him into past 2026 . With Williams, if it all turns to crap he can leave after two years when other opportunities might arise. Like if Max bails on Red Bull in 2026

There seems to be a lot of concern over the likely performance of the Audi engine given their inexperience in F1 terms, and the likleyhood their initial engine will be not up to scratcjh. Like Honda when they returned after a few years out. The expectation is that the Mercedes engine Williams will have will be a better bet, plus the fact that the 2025 and 26 cars will be with the benefit of the investment and new systems that Dorilton have been introducing since taking over from the underfinanced days of the Williams family.

At the last major engine change Williams outperformed Ferrari. In fact they outperformed everyone bar Mercedes and Red Bull, scoring decent points every race of the season..
Is there then dichotomy between Audi and Cadillac (or whoever supplies those engines to RB). I was under impression that RB and Mercedes were touted to Sainz as best seats in the series. So, what on PU side CH will have which Andreas will not? You say, it is a concern (which it is), between Williams and Audi, yet it wasn't concern a month or two ago with RB in the picture.
Post Reply