Horner under investigation

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Everso Biggyballies
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#421

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

As we know the complainant has been suspended from Red Bull Racing following the conclusion of the initial investigation by the independant barrister which exonerated Horner of any wrongdoing.

That same independent investigation into the matter ended with said employee at the centre of the allegations suspended (on full pay) for alleged dishonesty in her statements and evidence presented at the time.

Now we hear of her emotional problems with depression and. other issues such as being very upset, very angry, very scared, very intimidated, very lonely".

Apparently she is now to face fuller interviews and questioning this week in relation to her alleged dishonesty during the initial investigation. I wonder if there will be a mysterious leak with details of this alleged dishonesty. Perhaps something along the lines of (provocative) messages from her to CH or even some incriminating messages between the female and a third party.

That the independent barrister found her to have been dishonest in her claims seems to have been overlooked in all this employee self pity. Perhaps her alleged dishonesty and fabrication is much of the cause of the emotional issues she faces now. :idunno:

What makes me snigger is her wishes to continue working within F1, even still at RBR. I think, especially with the dishonesty rumours, she will be pretty well tarred with a brush that says "Avoid this one at all costs". I would have thought that whether right or wrong she would be pretty close to unemployable in F1, beyond Red Bull being forced to take her back for fear of unfair dismissal actions. Even should she be retained by Red Bull she will surely have a troublemaker tag on her be it deserved or not.

I still cannot remove my thoughts that this whole sad and sordid drama was the result of some set up with the objective to destabilise and ultimately terminate Horner's position within the company. Im not suggesting Horner is guilt free or of sound morals by any means but there is certainly a rodent-esque aroma emanating from somewhere.

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#422

Post by Aty »

Due to imposed secrecy there is much one would like to ask. Excessive, and hardly justified trust into so called independent investigation would be a starting point. In public arena assumption is, it was all encompassing in-depth investigation, which ended with favored son winning. What a stroke of luck.

A few thoughts.
1. What were exactly instructions the investigator received? (Imposed red lines on the investigation.)
2. Nature of all communications (received/initiated) by the investigator with both shareholders, before and/or during investigation. (Can we see accurate transcripts? I am sure all coms, digital or in person, including personal notes on this subject were recorded.)
3. On what basis content of social apps exchanges was dismissed? Is there only one app in play, or there are others?

Until all is in plain sight, which might be never, I feel something is not feeling just right. From psychological point of view, pursuit of justice by her doesn't strikes me as opportunistic, but genuine, and undeserving of public lynching she seems to be receiving. BTW, has actually anyone in public seen that Letter of Suspension in which she was alledgedly accused of being deceptive? Maybe people should stop dreaming about (alledged) duel between shareholders, and focus on human drama between two individuals. At the end, was justice served as it is? Doubts remain.
Last edited by Aty 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.
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#423

Post by DoubleFart »

Yawn. No news. No update. This thread has been finished for weeks.
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#424

Post by erwin greven »

DoubleFart wrote: 1 month ago Yawn. No news. No update. This thread has been finished for weeks.
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#425

Post by Star »

Had a bit of a dilemma for a moment, Sebastian Vettel was interviewed on Sky news today and he commented on the whole Christian Horner situation. I thought it should probably be in here and not in the Seb thread, though it could have gone in both to be fair :dunno:
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#426

Post by Ruslan »

I was thinking about posting that Vettel interview, but with everyone saying that this is over, I figured I would not annoy them. In the end, it is clear that this is not over. There will be more to come.
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#427

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

Star wrote: 1 month ago Had a bit of a dilemma for a moment, Sebastian Vettel was interviewed on Sky news today and he commented on the whole Christian Horner situation. I thought it should probably be in here and not in the Seb thread, though it could have gone in both to be fair :dunno:
If Red Bull decides to release more information about this case they would breach the privacy of the female employee in question... either they both decide to provide all the details (and I don't believe for a single second that this will happen because neither party has any interest in doing so, on the one hand she was found to act "dishonestly" and no one in such a situation wants to be exposed, on the other hand I'm sure that Horner and his family aren't keen on the messages becoming public, in a sense Red Bull as a company is in a lose - lose situation) or if Red Bull acts unilaterally and publishes the details of the KC's investigation then the female employee can sue them for damages

so yes we will keep on hearing unfounded rumors that never get substantiated (ie. she is about to go to the police, she is about to take them to an employment tribunal, she is about to start a civil case against Horner, she is about to talk to a prosecutor, she got 1 million euros payout, she is shaken by what happened, etc) until someone at Red Bull gets serious, start some proper investigation into the leaks, and decides to take action

I also would like to point out that in a sense I'm not blaming her, I think that she is being used
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#428

Post by Aty »

With all this secrecy surrounding this case, I am curious, how do we know she was found being dishonest? I can think about other reasons why it was recommended to her to step down. I am aware that friends, people wth an agenda and admires of CH like to use a very specific and inflammatory language, but who on the outside have actually seen and read the authentic Letter of Suspension she alledgedly received?
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#429

Post by DoubleFart »

Vettel's comments on a private internal investigation have no more relevance than my own. If anything, they're even less relevant because he has to balance his personal relationship with the paddock with his PR persona.

So they're pointless. Like this thread.
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#430

Post by Ruslan »

Well, this might actually be the most important story of 2025, if it was indeed the catalyst that led to the departure of Newey from Red Bull. The next question is how long Verstappen stays at Red Bull. I assume there will also be additional fall out (Marko or Horner or both). And, this story is not done yet.
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#431

Post by Aty »

I thought it was over, yet headlines implying otherwise. Toto must know something more than we do in here, which explains his patience with Max. Medland thinks the move is still possible.

https://racer.com/2024/05/21/why-the-f1 ... usy-again/
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#432

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Max potentially leaving Red Bull is now nothing to do with Horner or what has gone down with him this year.

It was mentioned previously that Mercedes believe that, as with the hybrid engined cars that they got a jump on, and to all intents and purposes were too involved in the setting of the engine regs to suit their own development platform, that they will once more be the engine to have going into the new era.

Quite what the demon loophole or performance advantage they have uncovered is, I have no idea, but they seem very confident they will once more be the benchmark engine to have and anyone serious about championships will need one. A bit like the line that Niki Lauda used to entice Lewis to Mercedes back the year before the hybrids were launched. The only difference being Niki knew what he was talking about, Toto is just full of crap and bullshit and more untrustworthy than a startled snake.

He is just using that mythical engine performance advantage as a carrot for Max to swallow trying to convince Max to walk out on Red Bull, who as we know are in effect developing their own engine from scratch for the first time ever. Toto is simply trying to convince Max that if he wants to win another title from 2026 then you have to come on board in 2025 and share the development. Almost. saying to Max, yes, with Red Bull you will win the title in 2025, but Mercedes will be winning the first years with the new engine and you will win 2026/7/8 etc only by joining Mercedes.

Obviously Toto would be hinting at what this special mechanical magic Mercedes have developed is, something he is confident that RBPT, Alpine, Honda, Ferrari wont understand or know of, and like non Mercedes engines in the dawn of the hybrid era the non Mercedes powered cars will again be trailing behind.

Toto has now realised that politics wont motivate Max's future direction but performance advantage promises might do.

Of course Toto will also be pushing the theory of Red Bull come 2026. will have a poor chassis with awful aero thanks to Newey's exit, plus an engine disadvantage.

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#433

Post by Aty »

Building a car is never the effort of a one-man. Leading personnel at Mercedes who contributed towards the architecture of the 2014 hybrid left the organization a long time ago. Wolff has the material resources to prosper in the new era, and his people have significant experience with hybrids, yet it is difficult to say whether they can reprise past success on the PU side. I would agree with that.
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#434

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 days ago Toto is just full of crap and bullshit and more untrustworthy than a startled snake.
Despite not having any facts on the matter leading to this emotional outburst, my private opinion is unapologetically different from yours.
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#435

Post by DoubleFart »

Aty wrote: 2 days ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 days ago Toto is just full of crap and bullshit and more untrustworthy than a startled snake.
Despite not having any facts on the matter leading to this emotional outburst, my private opinion is unapologetically different from yours.
I'd be interested to know why you rate the Failed Babysitter so highly?

Came into the sport after Brawn and HPP had already set the 2014 era in motion, and nobody could have failed with the team and advantage Brawn and HPP put together.

Mismanagement of their drivers' relationship led to multiple collisions over 2014-2016, and near misses. They failed to win every race in 2016 due to their drivers crashing into each other in one race, and an engine failure in the other. Better management of their drivers would have likely seen a clean sweep in 2016.

Rule changes in 2017 were covered by their massive engine advantage, but the aero advantage was clearly reducing every year. That's clear demonstration that Toto was not pushing the team forwards at the rate of other teams.

Ferrari finally got their engine ahead of the Merc, and the Merc advantage was gone. Ferrari then got nerfed due to their spicy engine illegalities, so Toto gets another year of no-competition.

Red Bull finally get an engine on par, and the moment Merc finally have a legally compliant rival and they lose the title.

Rule changes come in and Toto's team fucked it in 2022. They then fuck it in 2023 having promised that they had sorted it out. Every few months the new upgrades coming are going to fix things. They never do.

It's now 2024 and once again nothing under Toto's leadership have shown them to be moving forwards.
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#436

Post by Aty »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 days ago
Aty wrote: 2 days ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 days ago Toto is just full of crap and bullshit and more untrustworthy than a startled snake.
Despite not having any facts on the matter leading to this emotional outburst, my private opinion is unapologetically different from yours.
I'd be interested to know why you rate the Failed Babysitter so highly?
My recollection on tone of my posts is different from yours. I didn't say I am rating him "so highly"; that would be putting words in my mouth. Over the years I am on the record to bring up many times non competetiveness Hamilton faced, and how easy he piled his trophies. The same driver who is by some rated as "greates of all times".

I am however rating, even today, Mercedes among top 5 teams and worth considerations for top drivers.

In my understanding their current car has some inherent issues which need total redesign from ground up, however regulatory framework doesn't allow for that, so they suffer as other teams have in 2014 and after.

Chastising Wolff for "having it easy" after Brawn, you are conveniently forgetting it's realy not his fault, and surely not enough to be utterly disrespectful towards him. Brawn after all received huge gift from Honda, and that doesn't bother you? Right, why it should? It doesn't bother me either.

Life goes on.
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