Horner under investigation

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#406

Post by Aty »

Bottom post of the previous page:

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.
forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...
If he has done "nothing", then we wouldn't be having "Horner is investigated" thread. Employment Standards in UK aren't enough to promote the man into sainthood. My perception of him was taking adverse lines long time ago. Fourteen years to be exact. It would be boring (and possibly inappropriate) to bring all here. He has done nothing over the years to soften that image.
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#407

Post by erwin greven »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.
forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...
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#408

Post by MonteCristo »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.
forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...
Fiddling behind his wife's back doesn't paint him in a positive light. Fiddling behind his wife's back with a workplace subordinate doesn't help him professionally either.

That said, those alone do not warrant hanging. Some partners forgive, and some businesses forgive.

Yet with all that in mind, we still don't know the real story. Maybe never will.
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#409

Post by DoubleFart »

Aty wrote: 1 month ago
DoubleFart wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month agoFacts are, we on sidelines don't know nature of the complain under discussion, and at what stage the appeal process is.
And yet you constantly update this thread with nothings.
The case of the Austrian company interest me perhaps more than you, but admittedly in the sea of disinformation it is becoming increasingly difficult to stay factual. What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.
You haven't added any new information other than speculation and rumours since Red Bull put out a statement a month ago.
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#410

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

MonteCristo wrote: 1 month ago
P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 1 month ago
Aty wrote: 1 month ago What is apparent, that some people do like CH, and are forgiving, ever-ready to forget. I don't belong to that group.
forgiving what exactly? he hasn't been charged by the police, no prosecutor has taken up this case, she didn't go to an employment tribunal, she didn't sue Horner for damages, Horner has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an independent KC that was hired by Red Bull GmbH to look into this, the KC in question found that she acted "dishonestly" (it is now clear that she didn't appeal the findings of the KC), what is anyone supposed to forgive Horner for? for winning too many world championships? for marrying Geri? because he doesn't come across as the jolliest of chaps? not being the jolliest of chaps is not a crime...
Fiddling behind his wife's back doesn't paint him in a positive light. Fiddling behind his wife's back with a workplace subordinate doesn't help him professionally either.

That said, those alone do not warrant hanging. Some partners forgive, and some businesses forgive.

Yet with all that in mind, we still don't know the real story. Maybe never will.
I agree that what he did wasn't nice towards his family, he apologised for it and IMHO now it is a private matter between them
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#411

Post by Ruslan »

The Telegraph: Christian Horner and Drive to Survive: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... an-horner/ or here if there is a paywall issue: https://sports.yahoo.com/drive-survive- ... 00430.html

It is actually a decent article about Drive to Survive, worth reading.
Last edited by Ruslan 1 month ago, edited 2 times in total.
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#412

Post by erwin greven »

Is that the right link?
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#413

Post by Ruslan »

erwin greven wrote: 1 month ago Is that the right link?
No. Let me correct it.
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#414

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago
erwin greven wrote: 1 month ago Is that the right link?
No. Let me correct it.
Certainly working now. I have never really got into DTS.... I usually watch as much of one episode per series as I can stomach, and then decide I dont want to watch any more of the series. I think a lot of its problem to me is that it is all old news (last years news in reality) presented in a sensationalist manner. Many of the clips the conversations were based on have been played to death already. Last years sample episode I watched was about Lance Stroll.... it was interesting for a couple of minutes. The Guenther Steiner bits were amusing, but in reality nothing new or unseen

As for next years DTS, do I really want to relive Horner's controversy from a retrospective pov, 12 months down the track? Not sure I do. I have just accepted that DTS is not aimed at the traditional (ie old / long standing) fan such as myself who have been following the sport of F1 since the late sixties. DTS is more appetising I am sure to the same people that like the computer game style graphics that make the broadcasts look like some sort of computer game.

None the less a reasonable and interesting article, albeit fairly lengthy. :whistling: Thanks for posting.

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#415

Post by Aty »

Looking back...

It is a Red Bull story about a marketing company which happens to sells beverages.
How Dietrich Mateschitz Transformed a Thai Elixir into Red Bull $30 Billion Empire. Lessons About International Expansion.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ultimate ... rick-limma

How is this linked to CH? Dietrich Mateschitz made business what it is today. Apparently his son has inherited shares of the business (49%), but not other rights his father enjoyed in the partnership. It remains to be seen whether all what old man Dietrich built up in his life will be now taken away without remorse. The article touches on background how Thais got from near powerty to being one of the most powerful dynasties in Asia.
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#416

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#417

Post by Ruslan »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 month ago
Ruslan wrote: 1 month ago
erwin greven wrote: 1 month ago Is that the right link?
No. Let me correct it.
Certainly working now. I have never really got into DTS.... I usually watch as much of one episode per series as I can stomach, and then decide I dont want to watch any more of the series. I think a lot of its problem to me is that it is all old news (last years news in reality) presented in a sensationalist manner. Many of the clips the conversations were based on have been played to death already. Last years sample episode I watched was about Lance Stroll.... it was interesting for a couple of minutes. The Guenther Steiner bits were amusing, but in reality nothing new or unseen

As for next years DTS, do I really want to relive Horner's controversy from a retrospective pov, 12 months down the track? Not sure I do. I have just accepted that DTS is not aimed at the traditional (ie old / long standing) fan such as myself who have been following the sport of F1 since the late sixties. DTS is more appetising I am sure to the same people that like the computer game style graphics that make the broadcasts look like some sort of computer game.

None the less a reasonable and interesting article, albeit fairly lengthy. :whistling: Thanks for posting.
You know, I tried to get my son interested in racing, took him to races, etc. and he never was. They were long and boring. Suddenly in high school one of his friends started watching DTS even though he never followed F1. He recommended it to my son, he started watching DTS and now he follows F1. Would not have happened without DTS. In the end, DTS is reaching an audience that F1 was not reaching. It had become, as Bernie said, as series for men over 70 with Rolexes.
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#418

Post by Aty »

Update:
By Andrew Benson
BBC F1 correspondent
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/68712864

I feel for her.
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#419

Post by erwin greven »

awww.
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#420

Post by Vassago »

I said this before, the Asian bosses handled the case in a way nobody in USA or Europe would have followed. They didn't throw Horner to the wolves to avoid the negative PR and let the entire process run its course. As it turns out, not every complaint automatically means guilt. No wonder the woman is upset. She probably expected Horner to be axed days after the complaint went public and yeah, that is out of the window now.
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#421

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

As we know the complainant has been suspended from Red Bull Racing following the conclusion of the initial investigation by the independant barrister which exonerated Horner of any wrongdoing.

That same independent investigation into the matter ended with said employee at the centre of the allegations suspended (on full pay) for alleged dishonesty in her statements and evidence presented at the time.

Now we hear of her emotional problems with depression and. other issues such as being very upset, very angry, very scared, very intimidated, very lonely".

Apparently she is now to face fuller interviews and questioning this week in relation to her alleged dishonesty during the initial investigation. I wonder if there will be a mysterious leak with details of this alleged dishonesty. Perhaps something along the lines of (provocative) messages from her to CH or even some incriminating messages between the female and a third party.

That the independent barrister found her to have been dishonest in her claims seems to have been overlooked in all this employee self pity. Perhaps her alleged dishonesty and fabrication is much of the cause of the emotional issues she faces now. :idunno:

What makes me snigger is her wishes to continue working within F1, even still at RBR. I think, especially with the dishonesty rumours, she will be pretty well tarred with a brush that says "Avoid this one at all costs". I would have thought that whether right or wrong she would be pretty close to unemployable in F1, beyond Red Bull being forced to take her back for fear of unfair dismissal actions. Even should she be retained by Red Bull she will surely have a troublemaker tag on her be it deserved or not.

I still cannot remove my thoughts that this whole sad and sordid drama was the result of some set up with the objective to destabilise and ultimately terminate Horner's position within the company. Im not suggesting Horner is guilt free or of sound morals by any means but there is certainly a rodent-esque aroma emanating from somewhere.

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