Sprint races approved and happening in 2021. Balls.

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49239
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#226

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

I must admit I have always disliked the "every team must use two of the three chosen tyre compounds" each race meaning they have to stop at least once even if they dont need to. I woud much rather they had the old system where there would be a choice of compounds and each car could use whatever choice of tyres they wanted. If they wanted to run one set for the whole race they could, likewise they could go for softer tyres and do multipl stops if they felt that suited their car better. Different cars use their tyres in different ways, some seem to be harder of tyres than others.

To me its nonsense and ridiculous that like Sainz recently had to stop on the last lap, not because he needed to stop, but to meet the mandate of using two different compounds. In the process of that he dropped from a decents points position out of the points and as a result come the end of the season they had fallen short of Mercedes in the WCC by three points.... the points they lost by having to stop for tyres they did not need cost them the 9 million dollars bonus that would have been theirs for coming 2nd in the WCC.

I remember also earlier in the year I think it was Ocon was going long on a set of hard tyres, hoping for a late Safety Car to bank a points position, but was forced to pit from ninth on the final lap purely to meet the requirement of making a pitstop.and using two compounds.

As he peeled into the pits, the entry was blocked by photographers, marshals and other officials, getting set up for the podium ceremony, causing him to take action to avoid hitting anyone. He had to take avoiding action. No one was injured but they could have been and certainly gave him and those he nearly hit a WTF moment.

Its just a nonsense rule. They are big boys, just let them decide what tyres they need / want out of their allocated selection, not the way the rule is.

I know this tyre rule isnt even applicable to the Sprint races where tyre choice is free and stops are not obligatory but we started talking of the tyre rule and I had to get my gripe off my chest. ( **feel better now**) :haha: :wink:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Vassago
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3468
Joined: 20 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1, IndyCar
Favourite Driver: Senna, Clark, Montoya
Favourite Circuit: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Location: Poland

#227

Post by Vassago »

PTRACER wrote: 4 months ago I disagree, because being the faster car on a slower tyre also stops you from overtaking. And besides that there will still be the strategy of doing one stop less than the other guy. Its fine to see a car create a 20 second gal by driving the wheels off the car, if we know he needs to pit again. And maybe coming out just behind or wheel to wheel with his rival and having to overtake. That's how things were in the 90s. I'm very much into bringing back refuelling as well, and smaller fuel tanks, which means smaller cars.
In the modern era saving engine & tires is paramount. The 90s style of racing is dead. Nobody is driving 100% to create a 20 second gap for an additional pitstop anymore. Instead most teams absolutely bungle their strategy and end up waiting for a safety car or drive 98% of race distance on hard tire like Haas did one time. Complete shambles.
07.04.1968 - Flower of Scotland when will we see your like again?
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...
User avatar
Michael Ferner
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3531
Joined: 7 years ago
Real Name: Michael Ferner
Favourite Racing Car: Miller '122', McLaren M23
Favourite Driver: Billy Winn, Bruce McLaren
Car(s) Currently Owned: None
Location: Bitburg, Germany

#228

Post by Michael Ferner »

"If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
2023 'Guess The Pole' Points & Accuracy Champion

If you don't vote now against fascism, you may never have that chance again...


Ceterum censeo interruptiones essent delendam.
User avatar
XcraigX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Craig
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34
Favourite Driver: Mario Andretti
Favourite Circuit: Spa-Francorchamps
Car(s) Currently Owned: 2014 BMW 328d

#229

Post by XcraigX »

Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago "If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
So let's watch one...

(Thanks Fastlane database)
Seems very processional to me. The thing that made the pre-80's races interesting was the consistent UNREALIABILITY of the cars. Something broke on every car in every race. You never knew who was going to win (or limp home as "least broken car at the end"). It was not the lack of pitstops that made the race interesting. It was whether the chap in the lead was going to make it to the end or drop out that made it interesting.
I agree that pit stops are not the answer, but taking them away won't fix it either.

F1 used to push the technology envelope so hard that the cars were designed to barely make it to the end of the race. The limits in budget and testing have now made the technology a bit more ordinary. Should we remove the barriers to technology? Prices will climb to the sky again, but we may get some of that magic back.

I don't have the answers, but pitsops, tires, and refuling are not them either.
:trophy: 2019 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2021 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2022 Picks and Predictions Champion :trophy:
User avatar
MonteCristo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10713
Joined: 8 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Openwheel
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34/Protos
Favourite Driver: JV
Favourite Circuit: Road America
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#230

Post by MonteCristo »

XcraigX wrote: 4 months ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago "If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
So let's watch one...

(Thanks Fastlane database)
Seems very processional to me. The thing that made the pre-80's races interesting was the consistent UNREALIABILITY of the cars. Something broke on every car in every race. You never knew who was going to win (or limp home as "least broken car at the end"). It was not the lack of pitstops that made the race interesting. It was whether the chap in the lead was going to make it to the end or drop out that made it interesting.
I agree that pit stops are not the answer, but taking them away won't fix it either.

F1 used to push the technology envelope so hard that the cars were designed to barely make it to the end of the race. The limits in budget and testing have now made the technology a bit more ordinary. Should we remove the barriers to technology? Prices will climb to the sky again, but we may get some of that magic back.

I don't have the answers, but pitsops, tires, and refuling are not them either.
I'll say unpredictability. Reliability (or lack thereof), mixed in with generally harder to drive cars (worse track surfaces, less grippy tyres, setups not tuned to perfection), with tracks that punished errors (gravel, grass, walls, high kerbs, catch fencing).

It all made those races that much more engaging, because you didn't know what would happen, even if the on-track action was processional at times.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.

2012 GTP Non-Championship Champion | 2012 Guess the Kai-Star Half Marathon Time Champion | 2018 GTP Champion | 2019 GTP Champion
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2243
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#231

Post by Aty »

F1 used to push the technology envelope so hard that the cars were designed to barely make it to the end of the race.
Dr. Ing. h.c. Porsche used to say (paraphrasing): "The perfect race car crosses the finish line in first place and subsequently falls into its constituent parts." This kind of design philosophy could keep racing fans on the edge until very end.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49239
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#232

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 4 months ago
F1 used to push the technology envelope so hard that the cars were designed to barely make it to the end of the race.
Dr. Ing. h.c. Porsche used to say (paraphrasing): "The perfect race car crosses the finish line in first place and subsequently falls into its constituent parts." This kind of philosophy could keep racing fans on the edge until very end.
I think you will find that was Colin Chapman said that, and certainly practiced that in his philosophy.. But whoever said it, matters not, it is what was said that strikes a chord is important.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2243
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#233

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 4 months ago
Aty wrote: 4 months ago
F1 used to push the technology envelope so hard that the cars were designed to barely make it to the end of the race.
Dr. Ing. h.c. Porsche used to say (paraphrasing): "The perfect race car crosses the finish line in first place and subsequently falls into its constituent parts." This kind of philosophy could keep racing fans on the edge until very end.
I think you will find that was Colin Chapman said that, and certainly practiced that in his philosophy.. But whoever said it, matters not, it is what was said that strikes a chord is important.
I am not in a position to argue this case one way or another, but those words were credited to FP most often (based on what I've heard in the past). Regardless who has authored the quote, I do agree that what was said is a central thought of interest. No questions about it. We of course know what FiA will do to a team today, if something happens to their hybrid PU and there is need for a new part.
DoubleFart
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 5269
Joined: 9 years ago
Real Name: YouKnowWho
Favourite Motorsport: F1

#234

Post by DoubleFart »

I am surprised that people like Bullies and Paul, two very knowledgeable people, are saying that Sainz had to give up a point position due to a stupid rule.

No. He never had a points position. The points position is where you finish, according to meeting the rules.

Sainz was in a false position because they were praying for a safety car to save him. If he had followed the rules and pitted in sync with strategy he would not have scored points.

It's like saying a guy in the 90s doing a 3 stopper lost a win to a 2 stopper because he had to make a late splash and dash. He never had the win, because he never had the fuel to finish, just like Sainz didn't have the tyres to finish.

End rant.
Gavle Yule Goat Predictor 2018, 2019 and 2021 Champion
MonteCristo wrote: 2 years agoVettel: Not a fan at all on track. But off track, good guy.
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2243
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#235

Post by Aty »

The Chinese Grand Prix as well as the Miami Grand Prix weekends will run the Sprint format for the first time during the 2024 Formula 1 season.
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/12/05 ... s-in-2024/

That's 6 sprint sessions in total so far.

Image
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49239
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#236

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

My Mother used to tell me if I have nothing nice to say, say nothing.
me wrote:Nothing. :sick: :wink:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2243
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#237

Post by Aty »

I don't think the list is finilized, and expecting changes. For example Chinese race (IMO) is on an edge (politics). When choosing which races to drop, I will include one or two sprint event. Probably Miami will be strong candidate.
User avatar
Michael Ferner
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3531
Joined: 7 years ago
Real Name: Michael Ferner
Favourite Racing Car: Miller '122', McLaren M23
Favourite Driver: Billy Winn, Bruce McLaren
Car(s) Currently Owned: None
Location: Bitburg, Germany

#238

Post by Michael Ferner »

XcraigX wrote: 4 months ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago "If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
So let's watch one...

(Thanks Fastlane database)
Seems very processional to me.
Processional? Hmm. :nah: Five cars running nose to tail for the entire distance, with the order turned upside down at the finish; no pit stops or DRS, REAL overtakes instead. Not the greatest of all time, but surely better than anything that happened in F1 the last twenty years, no?
2023 'Guess The Pole' Points & Accuracy Champion

If you don't vote now against fascism, you may never have that chance again...


Ceterum censeo interruptiones essent delendam.
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2243
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#239

Post by Aty »

Resuscitating my fading memories, I recal how I used to be happy just waiting if Prost overtakes Senna, or Mika overtakes Michael, and that singular overtake under suspence while waiting made me happy. I am not interested to see 35 overtakes in one race. One good one makes my day. Today catching Max will take inhuman effort, but I like to observe how drivers are trying; it's worth the cost of admission. (Forget the LV circus.) I am not sure what you guys saw in F1 history which was better racing (on some tracks) than what we have now.

Admittedly there is plenty which could be better, but McLaren and Ferrari are very, very close. Keeping up with Max for 16 laps before drop off is good stuff, now rivals need stamina for keeping up with him the rest of race. Making cars smaller and lighter could be good start.

I should add - Max was identified as a sole driver who has understood workings of his tires. (Advantage Max.)
User avatar
PTRACER
Forum Administrator
Forum Administrator
Posts: 42152
Joined: 20 years ago
Real Name: Paul
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 49
Favourite Driver: Gilles Villeneuve, James Hunt
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife
Car(s) Currently Owned: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X JDM
Contact:

#240

Post by PTRACER »

Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago
XcraigX wrote: 4 months ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago "If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
So let's watch one...

(Thanks Fastlane database)
Seems very processional to me.
Processional? Hmm. :nah: Five cars running nose to tail for the entire distance, with the order turned upside down at the finish; no pit stops or DRS, REAL overtakes instead. Not the greatest of all time, but surely better than anything that happened in F1 the last twenty years, no?
I agree, I thought that was pretty interesting.

The mid 70s did have a lot of what I would call dull races. I watched a few of the 1970s races at Paul Ricard and it really was just cars going round in circles and the odd one stopping because of a breakdown. 1979 Dijon was also dull as dishwater until GV and Arnoux started battling. The very late-70s / early-80s were far better in general though.
Developer of the 1967v3 Historic Mod for Grand Prix Legends: viewtopic.php?t=17429

King of the Race Track, Destroyer of Tyres, Breaker of Lap Records
User avatar
MonteCristo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10713
Joined: 8 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Openwheel
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34/Protos
Favourite Driver: JV
Favourite Circuit: Road America
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#241

Post by MonteCristo »

PTRACER wrote: 4 months ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago
XcraigX wrote: 4 months ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 4 months ago "If we'd take away the pit stops/DRS/tyre rules etc. the races would be even more processional" yada yada yada yada. I've heard it so often, I can't believe people are still buying this Bull Shit. The pit stops are the original cause for processional races, there were none before F1 pit stops became the norm in the eighties, and they were here to stay once races without pit stops were all but banned in the nineties. You don't get a better product by fixing over and over again what isn't broken. "Oh, the races have become processional, we need more pit stops to spice them up" - "Oh, they're even more processional now, we need a stronger dose: even more pit stops, different tyre compounds, how about artificial overtaking..." Once you've got your head buried deep enough in shit, you can't see clear anymore. And it won't help burying it even deeper! :annoyed:
So let's watch one...

(Thanks Fastlane database)
Seems very processional to me.
Processional? Hmm. :nah: Five cars running nose to tail for the entire distance, with the order turned upside down at the finish; no pit stops or DRS, REAL overtakes instead. Not the greatest of all time, but surely better than anything that happened in F1 the last twenty years, no?
I agree, I thought that was pretty interesting.

The mid 70s did have a lot of what I would call dull races. I watched a few of the 1970s races at Paul Ricard and it really was just cars going round in circles and the odd one stopping because of a breakdown. 1979 Dijon was also dull as dishwater until GV and Arnoux started battling. The very late-70s / early-80s were far better in general though.
I wonder how much of that was also terrible TV directing though. Without seeing lap charts (and with gaps shown as well), hard to say what the real story was.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.

2012 GTP Non-Championship Champion | 2012 Guess the Kai-Star Half Marathon Time Champion | 2018 GTP Champion | 2019 GTP Champion
Post Reply