2026 Engine Regs stuff and potential engine manus / team partnerships.

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Everso Biggyballies
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#46

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

I mentioned that I was skeptical over their weight reduction claims given the new engines and battery packs will be heavier by over 30kgs.... I found this outlining the engine weight changes.

In effect this means that for an overall weight saving they claim of 30kg, they have therefore found a weight saving in the chassis of more than 60kg to cover the increased engine weight. I dont see it from a car that is just inches smaller in dimensions, yet has additional crash structures.

Anyway the new engine weight breakdown v the current.:
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Everso Biggyballies
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#47

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Interesting article in Motorsport mag with an interview with Newey, who reckons the engine side of the new car equation are very badly thought out anbd wont work with the car chassis... or words to that effect. I have bolded his key thoughts and to me it sounds nasty.
It’s certainly going to be a strange formula in as much as the engines will be working flat-chat as generators just about the whole time,” he said.

“So, the prospect of the engine working hard in the middle of Loews hairpin is going to take some getting used to.

“It is fair to say that the engine regulations were created and pushed through without very much thought to the chassis side of it.

“And that is now creating quite large problems in terms of trying to come up with a solution to work with it.


“But I think the one good thing is that it does promote efficiency. And I think anything that does that, and promotes that, has to be in line with what I said earlier: of trying to use F1 to popularise a trend.”
Horner added his bit identifying the regs as aimed at appeasing car manufacturers not the core F1 teams....
“[It’s] probably one that even the FIA would acknowledge,” Horner said, “that only the engine manufacturers wanted this kind of 50/50 combustion engine with electric.

“I guess it is what their marketing people said that we should be doing and I understand that: it’s potentially interesting because F1 can be a fast-track developer of technology.

“The problem potentially on the battery and electric side is the cost currently, certainly of electric motors to F1 standard, plus inverters and batteries. It is very high, but perhaps production techniques in the future will help to bring that down.

“The key aspect for the manufacturers is the perception of relevance in the show room”
“The other problem is the battery. What we need, or what the F1 regulations need out of the batteries in terms of power density and energy density, is quite different to what a normal road car needs. And that in itself means that the battery chemistry, and possibly battery construction is different. So, there’s a risk that it won’t be directly road-relevant.
In the same article Max has a dig at F1 suggesting it will become purely down to who does the best job with the engine.
“That’s not the way forward,” Max Verstappen opined on the prospective new engine rules and its influence on the car regulations. “It looks like it’s going to be an ICE competition. So, whoever has the strongest engine will have a big benefit.

“With the engine regulation that they went into, they kind of need to do that [use active aero] to create the top speed where the battery stops deploying and stuff.

“Some tracks will work a bit better, and some tracks probably it’s a bit more on the edge.

“Of course, people will try to counter my arguments, but I guess we’ll find out anyway in ’26.”

Max wants simpler cars in grand prix racing, not further intricacies with a split power unit and active aerodynamics.
“I don’t think that should be the intention of Formula 1, because then you will start a massive development war again, and it will become quite expensive to find a few horsepower here and there,” he said.

“It should be the opposite. Plus, the cars probably have a lot less drag so it will be even harder to overtake on the straight.

“We should not get into active suspension, active aerodynamics and things like that. That makes it all much more complicated, and that’s where some teams are going to excel again, to do a better job than others. You have to keep it as simple as possible.
Carlos Sainz had his thoughts to, similar to Max , feeling the chassis and aerodynamic rules have been negatively influenced by the 2026 engines – but he’s reserving final judgement. Actually Carlos has some very eloquent comments
“I think it’s all a consequence of the engine regulations,” the Spaniard said.

“In the end, if you have a lot more energy requested from the electric powertrain, you’re going to need to have, in a way, active aerodynamics to compensate.

“And this is where it all starts to get messy with the overtaking and the active aero, and how you can do that to help the car to go quicker on the straight and spend less time full throttle.

“Anyway, until we try them, it is I think unfair to criticise or to back the regulation change. And at the same time, if it has attracted manufacturers, big manufacturers like Audi, into the sport, I think it’s something that has to be appreciated and put into context.”

“Why not active suspension to protect drivers?”
Sainz also has his own opinions on what changes should be instigated at the sport’s highest echelon.

“If I would have to request something to the FIA for 2026, if we are going to have active aero, why not active suspension to protect the back of the drivers and to protect our own health and the safety of certain tracks?

“It’s clear that right now we are asking way too many things to the tracks and to the circuits, to the organisations, to change many small bumps that before we wouldn’t even feel with the ‘21 car, and now we just can spin or have a pretty big accident because of those situations.”

The full article: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... es-so-far/

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Aty
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#48

Post by Aty »

F1's regulations are finally delivering what they promised
https://racer.com/2024/06/11/f1s-regula ... -promised/

Yes, I do agree it is hard to win races these days with ultra heavy competition around. One win today is beter than all of those ten years ago. We didn't have that in 2014...


The thing is, I still would change a lot of things. People will always make mistakes. The only proper response is to let the same men have another go at it. It should not take three seasons to make it right, but rather three months, and cars could be smaller and lighter.
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#49

Post by Aty »

I am certain Audi heard of how F1 political "apparatchik" operates. Now they are getting real taste of it.
Mercedes still opposed to 2026 engine rules tweaks

Toto Wolff is staunchly opposed to making any tweaks whatsoever to the 2026 engine rules.


https://www.grandprix.com/news/mercedes ... weaks.html

People work on the PU project for some time, spending money, yet FiA cannot produce for once a piece of paper which might need at worst a minor tweak and nothing much more? This kind of management has aroma of a finger up, figuring which way "favorable" winds blow.
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Everso Biggyballies
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#50

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 3 weeks ago I am certain Audi heard of how F1 political "apparatchik" operates. Now they are getting real taste of it.
Mercedes still opposed to 2026 engine rules tweaks

Toto Wolff is staunchly opposed to making any tweaks whatsoever to the 2026 engine rules.


https://www.grandprix.com/news/mercedes ... weaks.html

People work on the PU project for some time, spending money, yet FiA cannot produce for once a piece of paper which might need at worst a minor tweak and nothing much more? This kind of management has aroma of a finger up, figuring which way "favorable" winds blow.
I think perhaps the FIA are trying to please everyone (in terms of the engine manufacturers) all of the time. As the saying goes you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but all the people all the time forget it..

The FIA are trying to appease manufacturers with different strategies and ideals. One wants more hybrid power, less ICE, another wants more electric, another wants more ICE, all depending on how their (each brand)road division power units are moving. Compounded perhaps by manufacturers road car directions changing from more hybrid less electric bias etc as they all go on their own individual journey of reducing the ICE aspect in the overall power, one wants V6 for the ICE aspect another wants 4 cyl etc, depending on their own interests.. Toto does want too much of one aspect that doesnt suit Mercedes Benz , Honda might want more of what Toto /MB doesnt.

Basically the FIA are trying to juggle to many selfish interests from all the manus. I might be wrong but thats how I see it.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

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Aty
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#51

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 weeks ago
Aty wrote: 3 weeks ago I am certain Audi heard of how F1 political "apparatchik" operates. Now they are getting real taste of it.
Mercedes still opposed to 2026 engine rules tweaks

Toto Wolff is staunchly opposed to making any tweaks whatsoever to the 2026 engine rules.


https://www.grandprix.com/news/mercedes ... weaks.html

People work on the PU project for some time, spending money, yet FiA cannot produce for once a piece of paper which might need at worst a minor tweak and nothing much more? This kind of management has aroma of a finger up, figuring which way "favorable" winds blow.
I think perhaps the FIA are trying to please everyone (in terms of the engine manufacturers) all of the time. As the saying goes you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but all the people all the time forget it..

The FIA are trying to appease manufacturers with different strategies and ideals. One wants more hybrid power, less ICE, another wants more electric, another wants more ICE, all depending on how their (each brand)road division power units are moving. Compounded perhaps by manufacturers road car directions changing from more hybrid less electric bias etc as they all go on their own individual journey of reducing the ICE aspect in the overall power, one wants V6 for the ICE aspect another wants 4 cyl etc, depending on their own interests.. Toto does want too much of one aspect that doesnt suit Mercedes Benz , Honda might want more of what Toto /MB doesnt.

Basically the FIA are trying to juggle to many selfish interests from all the manus. I might be wrong but thats how I see it.
I don't think you are wrong, but FiA has to take their leadership into their hands.
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#52

Post by Aty »

Interesting:
Toyota deal possible for resurgent Haas

A new and wild rumour is circulating that Japanese carmaker giant Toyota could be considering a return to Formula 1.
Little late perhaps?
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